This is episode 18 of the Dunk Talk Podcast, recorded live on YouTube the night before Wisconsin Dunk Camp 2024 kicked off. I’m Dylan Haugen and I’m sitting in person with my co-host Hunter Castona at his place. We opened up live questions and answered as many as we could fit in. Below is the cleaned-up version of the most useful exchanges, grouped by topic, with stats and dunks updated to where Hunter and I are right now.
Our heights, weights, verticals, and reaches
- Dylan: 5’10.5” (no shoes), 160 pounds, 41.5” vertical (tested at Utah Dunk Camp 2024), 7’10.5” standing reach with shoes.
- Hunter: 6’1” (no shoes), 170 pounds, untested at Wisconsin camp (haven’t been training for max vert; on load management). Estimate around 41–42″ on average, 43–44 at peak. Standing reach in the 8’0” to 8’1” range depending on calibration.
Hunter’s skipping the official vertical test at Wisconsin camp because the schedule overlaps with dunking time, and he’s rather use his max-effort jumps in the sessions than on a Vertec. I want to test more often because I haven’t locked in an official number above 41.5 yet.
Lifting numbers (squat, power clean)
- Dylan: half squat (above parallel) PR is 365 with form I wouldn’t fully count; comfortably reps 300 for 5. Power clean PR 185 for 3.
- Hunter: full-depth squat 275. Power clean 205. Haven’t been lifting heavy because of load management. Most of the last couple months has been slow strength and slow squats while managing Achilles/knee/back stuff.
Bench numbers came up too. Dylan benches around 190 at 160 bodyweight. Hunter doesn’t really bench (135 once in high school, hasn’t since). Neither of us thinks bench correlates with vertical. We train it as upper-body general work, not as a vertical input.
Training programs (JumpX, THP, ATG)
I’m on JumpX with Tom Barnes and Austin Young as my main coaches. Hunter’s on THP. Both programs are heavily focused on strength and power. Both work. Neither is “better” in some objective sense. Pick the one that aligns with your situation and stick with it.
On ATG: I have nothing against the program and I respect Connor Barth (one of their coaches) at a high level. Some of the ATG exercises in my view aren’t the most efficient for raw vertical gains compared to a pure strength block, but the methodology has real value especially for the joint-prep / mobility side of training. Hunter ran ATG for about two months in his freshman/sophomore year and didn’t see a vertical bump from it personally, but he wasn’t complementing it with heavy strength work either.
Best shoes for dunking
Both of us run the Way of Wade lineup. I rotate between the Way of Wade All City 12 and the Way of Wade 10. The All City 12s have been my main lately (cheaper, still carbon fiber, I jump well in them). The W10 is the higher-tech option. Hunter prefers the W10 mostly out of habit. We did a full breakdown with Shankar Iyer in episode 7 if you want the deep dive on Li-Ning Gammas, the custom Kobe 8 / 361 AG midsole build, and the GT Cut line that Donovan Hawkins jumps in.
Verdict on Victory Insoles: they don’t really do what they advertise. I was a sponsored Victory athlete for about four months. The first time I wore them I jumped well and convinced myself they worked. The longer I wore them, the more I realized the boost was placebo. Not worth $150 for the insoles.
Can you dunk if you’re short?
5’7”: yes. 5’4”: yes. We’ve watched 5’4” dunkers land Eastbays and get close to Underboth. The two factors that matter are training quality and how young you start. A 5’7” kid who starts low-rim at 10 with a coach can absolutely dunk at 10’ by 16. Older starters have a steeper curve but it’s still possible. The key constraint is patience: a serious dunk journey at any height is at least a multi-year project.
Genetic ceilings
The number I’d give as a safe estimate for someone training consistently with reasonable athletic ability: 40″ vertical is achievable for almost anyone willing to grind for years. 45″ is achievable for most people who are genuinely athletic. 50″ is the territory where genetics start mattering a lot. Isaiah Rivera has tested 50.5 (and got really close to 51 last year). Dak got there. The list is short.
Hunter and I both flagged the bigger point on genetic-ceiling questions: the actual ceiling doesn’t matter as much as people think. If my ceiling is 50 and yours is 45, that’s fine. We’re both still training because we love the process. The dunkers who quit because “my genetics aren’t good enough” usually didn’t actually love it.
Are NBA dunker verticals real?
Almost universally no. Most NBA vertical numbers, especially historical ones, are made up. Wilt’s claimed 48″: not real (there was no Vertec-equivalent measurement system). Michael Jordan’s claimed 48″: not real (and Michael is one of my favorite players of all time, so this isn’t hating). Recent combine numbers are more credible (Reed Sheppard tested in the low 40s recently and that’s a real number). Even then there are reach inflation issues where standing reach gets exaggerated by a couple of inches.
Of the current NBA, the dunkers I’d actually believe are jumping high in real life: Ja Morant, Anthony Edwards, Mac McClung, Zach LaVine in his prime. Mac probably touches 45″ on a real day. The rest of the top NBA dunkers are likely high 30s to low 40s. Pros in our world (Kilganon, Isaiah, Southerland, Donovan) would beat almost everyone in the NBA in a contest.
Our current top three dunks
Dylan:
- Eastbay (off lob, on 10’).
- Dubble Up Eastbay (push-off but I count it).
- 360 Pump Windmill.
Hunter:
- Underboth.
- Eastbay off the backboard.
- Two-hand Reverse Eastbay.
Hunter has Windmill off the wall and Eastbay Scorpion both on his “next dunk” list. I’m close on a behind-the-back. After Wisconsin Dunk Camp this list will probably update.
Craziest dunks we’ve seen in person
- Isaiah Rivera’s 360 Underboth at Dunk Camp 2024.
- Jordan Kilganon’s 540. Just impossible movement.
- Isaiah’s Dubble-Triple-Up Eastbay (over two people stacked).
- Jonathan Clark’s Eastbay over four people at the Thursday show. Twice.
- Kilganon’s triple-up Scorpion (over two stacked people).
- Donovan Hawkins’ Underboth off the backboard.
- Donovan’s between-the-legs self-bounce into a 360 Eastbay.
- A 360 behind-the-back Eastbay on a 9’9” rim from Dunk Camp 2022 that I won’t name the dunker on but was insane.
One-foot vs. two-foot jumping
The fastest pros-and-cons read for someone deciding which to focus on:
One-foot pros: get off the ground faster, easier for in-game dunks on fast breaks, basic trick dunks like Eastbay are easier if you’re jumping high enough.
Two-foot pros: more control, higher max vertical for most people, easier spin dunks, easier dunks over people.
Most one-foot specialists max out somewhere south of 48″, since only Jordan Southerland has hit higher off one. Two-foot specialists who train heavy get to 50’+ more often. If you’re torn, do both. The decision doesn’t lock you in.
Our off-plant verticals
The gap between dominant plant and off plant is bigger than people think.
- Dylan (dominant: left-right two-foot): off-plant maybe mid-30s. About a 5-6 inch drop from my dominant 41.5.
- Hunter (dominant: right-left): off-plant probably 34-35. Same general 6 inches off.
Off-plant work isn’t a bad idea (Hunter does some left-right reps to save his right-left legs during sessions) but neither of us treats it as a primary training input.
Plyometrics, sprints, and other inputs
Plyometrics are overrated for most dunkers. The single most useful plyometric drill is max-intent jumps from a full approach, basically just jumping as hard as you can. One-foot dunkers benefit from more general plyo work (ground contact time matters more for them), but two-foot dunkers should focus their non-lifting volume on the actual jumps.
Sprints: I do them occasionally and haven’t seen a big vertical correlation, but I haven’t logged enough of them to know for sure. Hunter cut sprints because they flared up his Achilles. Worth experimenting if your body tolerates them.
Who’ll test 50 at Dunk Camp this year?
Realistic list of dunkers capable of touching 50 at a Dunk Camp (Utah or Wisconsin): Isaiah Rivera, Jordan Kilganon, and Donovan Hawkins. Southerland is close. Donovan in particular is a wild card because he’s 6’3.5” and just jumps insanely high, and even if he doesn’t hit 50, he’s touching at least 46–47.
Whether Kilganon ever “officially” tests 50 on a Vertec is another question. He’s touched it but won’t count it because the Vertec wasn’t calibrated to his standards. He’ll test on a verified Vertec at some point.
Should you switch plant direction?
Generally no, unless you have a clear reason. The plant you naturally jump higher on is your dominant plant. Switching plants when you’re “almost dunking” off your dominant side rarely pays off because the new plant takes 6–12 months of consistent reps to get to par. Hunter and I have both made the call to stay on dominant plant after experimenting with the other side.
The exception is if your dominant plant is causing a specific recurring injury that doesn’t exist on the other plant. In that case, switch.
What’s next on the podcast
Next episode is the Dom Gonzales interview on becoming a pro at 5’8”. After that, the Mason Baker interview. Plus more guests rolling out through the summer. DunkMan League starts this summer. Minnesota Dunk Squad sessions are weekly through fall. Drop questions in the YouTube comments for the next live Q&A.